Forum Home Inspiration and Leadership What Have We Become???

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    • #28732
      Kenny Klimes
      Keymaster

      Hmmm, here is an excerpt from a devotion I follow each day – John Eldridge’s Wild at Heart Daily Reading. Are men becoming just Nice Guys? Are our churches turning us into – “nice guys”?

      What do you think???

      And then, alas, there is the church. Christianity, as it currently exists, has done some terrible things to men. When all is said and done, I think most men in the church believe that God put them on the earth to be a good boy. The problem with men, we are told, is that they don’t know how to keep their promises, be spiritual leaders, talk to their wives, or raise their children. But if they will try real hard they can reach the lofty summit of becoming … a nice guy. That’s what we hold up as models of Christian maturity: Really Nice Guys. We don’t smoke, drink, or swear; that’s what makes us men. Now let me ask my male readers: In all your boyhood dreams growing up, did you ever dream of becoming a Nice Guy? (Ladies, was the Prince of your dreams dashing … or merely nice?)
      Really now—do I overstate my case? Walk into most churches in America, have a look around, and ask yourself this question: What is a Christian man? Don’t listen to what is said, look at what you find there. There is no doubt about it. You’d have to admit a Christian man is … bored. At a recent church retreat I was talking with a guy in his fifties, listening really, about his own journey as a man. “I’ve pretty much tried for the last twenty years to be a good man as the church defines it.” Intrigued, I asked him to say what he thought that was. He paused for a long moment. “Dutiful,” he said. “And separated from his heart.” A perfect description, I thought. Sadly, right on the mark.

    • #28735
      JOHN MUCKERMAN
      Participant

      Kenny,

      I waited a few days after you posted the excerpt from John Eldridge’s Wild at Heart Daily Devotional to see if you would get any replies. Eldredge asks, “Are men becoming just Nice Guys? Are our churches turning us into ‘nice guys’”?

      You asked, “What do you think?” I can’t wait any longer to reply—even though I realize many guys may have read it and are thinking about it—and that’s nice. Or maybe many guys won’t reply because, after all, it’s not nice to talk about “religion”. It’s not politically correct—and isn’t that how many men and many churches measure nice?

      It’s as if some of these same men and churches believe that Jesus became man, suffered, died and was buried just to show us how to be nice guys—even though Jesus said he came to seek and save the lost.

      Of course, this begs the question, “Do we get to heaven by being nice?” And that begs the question, “Then how nice is nice enough or good enough?” Then that should beg the question, “Why did Jesus come to seek and save the lost, if being nice or good enough was the ticket to salvation?”

      As I read the Bible, I get the idea that Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross was the payment for the sin debt of those who trust in him as Savior and Lord. And since Jesus was born without sin and lived a perfect life I get the idea it was the only acceptable sacrifice to God.

      Oh, I run into some nice guys that say they don’t sin—at least not serious sins. I wonder if they have read in Matthew 5 where Jesus basically says if you think an ugly thought about another person or call another a fool it’s worthy of hell.

      I was wondering if maybe this nice guy goal that some men have is because they are still going on what they think they heard in second grade. Maybe it’s time to start reading the Bible seriously with adult eyes and an adult mind.

      And maybe, just maybe, some churches are perpetuating the goal because it preaches well and doesn’t make waves. In other words, it’s good marketing and good marketing (they think) equates to more butts in pews on Sunday.

      By the way, by most men’s definition of nice, I don’t think Jesus (who is my Savior and Lord) was a nice guy. Nice guys don’t call their religious leaders “blind guides”, “offspring of vipers”, “hypocrites” and “white washed tombs”.

      Once, when Jesus entered a temple and found money-grubbing marketers selling animals inside, he “made a whip out of cords, scattered their coins, and overturned their tables,” yelling at them, “How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market” (John 2)!   Hmmmmm, that’s just not nice!

      Nice guys usually aren’t hated, betrayed, flogged, mocked, and crucified. But Jesus experienced all five. Why? Because Jesus wasn’t nice. Jesus wasn’t nice, he was kind. There’s a big difference; they are not one in the same.

      Apparently the Apostles weren’t nice guys either. All of them were hunted down, tortured and martyred except John who was exiled to an island where he eventually died.

      So what’s wrong with being a nice guy? It’s only when you stop caring about a being nice that you can really find what your made of, and what matters to God in this short life you’ve been given.

      Jesus was a man on a mission and he wants us to participate with him in that mission. The resurrected Jesus told his followers: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:18-20).

      That Great Commission that Jesus commanded us to do is a loving, kind, obedient, kingdom-building, way of life—but it’s not a popular, nice thing to do in this woke, politically correct, humanistic world. And it’s not talked about much in many churches.

      Nice—where’s the passion in nice? What kind of a mission would that be. And it’s becoming more obvious all the time that everybody measures nice differently. What a mess! How sadly ego-centric can you get verses God-centric!

      I was wondering if John Eldridge is insinuating that the bar is so low on just being nice that it becomes synonymous with dull, boring, apathetic, half-hearted, lukewarm men.

      Jesus used some pretty harsh words to describe his feelings regarding lukewarm Christians when he was addressing the church in Laodicea: “So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth” (Revelations 3:16).

      Well, after reading my reply, you can surmise that I’m not a very nice guy, but that’s ok. If my words help wake up even one guy who reads them, I’m ecstatic. If even one guy decides to get more serious about his faith and seek a life of real significance, I’m happy. In fact, I’m just happy I said them.

      Kenny, I too care less and less about what people say about me—but I too (as you stated in an earlier post) am praying for the day when Jesus might say to me, “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

    • #28736
      alharp
      Participant

      I read with interest the thoughts of Kenny and John.  If I were honest I’d probably have to admit I vacillate between trying to be a “nice guy” and being a bold warrior for Christianity as I understand it.  A couple of authors I’m reading lately explain that:

      1) “… we are intensely attached to being perceived in a positive light, even by people we don’t know and will never meet … and even by people we don’t like.” *
      2) “Christianity not only makes us aspire to be better, but it also shows us how to be better.” **

      I’m thankful for resources like the books from which these quotes were taken and the comments of people who are seeking answers through the Bible and God’s word.  They help me push away the anxiety, hopelessness and frustration that sometimes starts to build up due to lies that are so prevalent in our culture today.  I also try to find opportunities to persuade or uplift others.  Another thing that helps is getting out in nature and trying to catch a fish.
      Al Harper

      * <i>The Biggest Lie in the History of Christianity</i> by Matthew Kelly

      ** <i>What’s So Great About Christianity</i> by Dinesh D’Souza

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